Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 3:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I can’t think of another song that generates as strong feelings pro and con as Terrapin.

On the whole, I get the sense that there’s general agreement on the relative quality of various GD tunes and what would go on most folks’ A list, B list or C list. I doubt you’d ever hear an argument here (or probably anywhere) that Alabama Getaway is up there with St Stephen, unless it was in the Onion version of the forum.

Even something like Sailor > Saint … some like it, some don’t, but I’d bet that most would place it on the B list, and there won’t be many who say it’s either an absolutely chill-inducing favorite or completely sucks with no redeeming value. So there's general rough agreement.

Terrapin, though … for me, it can be transcendent and chill-inducing, but I know others feel just as strongly the other way. Is there any other song that generates such strong feelings pro and con? What about Fire? I remember someone calling it “Fire Plod Plod,” and that’s pretty darned funny, even though I like it myself.

One thing that strikes me about both Terrapin and Fire is that they fall very much under Wisconsin's great description of ‘77 as “climactic” (vs the earlier “cosmic.”) Maybe that’s part of it …

Anyway, just musing. Do people who dislike Terrapin also tend to dislike Fire? Any other songs that seem to have passionate defenders and detractors? (Hmmm, maybe Terrapin is kinda the Brent of GD tunes ...)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: chris in long beach Date: Sep 28, 2011 4:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Looks Like Rain? :D

Hmm, maybe not, I haven't seen many people willing to admit they like, much less love, that song.

Ooooo, how bout the slower versions of songs? I love the upbeat FOTD and TLEO, but the slow versions bore me to tears. I wonder if most others fall into the either/or category.





Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I love looks like rain. I understand why many dont like it. The lyrics are about as cheeseball sappy as you can get. At any rate that song ranks pretty high on my list.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

i love that song !!!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

sarcasm?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 30, 2011 3:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

none whatsoever. ....I love that song.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Oct 1, 2011 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

cool.

Got a favorite you feel like suggesting?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: fenario80 Date: Sep 28, 2011 1:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I love LLR because Jerry usually played the hell out of it, and it's not a style that he plays a lot outside of it. I was always thrilled to hear it live.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rastamon Date: Sep 28, 2011 5:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Standing on the Moon, imo is a sweet song that hits me straight to the heart. Some here do not like it at all.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: WillCo Date: Sep 29, 2011 11:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Looks Like Rain
This song coulda been a contender. Right up there. If not for the toe-curlingly bad verse about the street cats.

Terrapin
I was never able to tap into the tape trading scene, but did buy all the official releases. It took them ages to release a live version of the whole of Terrapin Station, during which time the talk was all about how much better the live versions had always been, why are they waiting so long to bring one out? etc. In other words it developed a sort of breakout mystique. When it finally appeared (on Terrapin Ltd Edition) I remember the hype pre-release, and being a bit disappointed.

There's a good Ratdog performance (and recording) of Terrapin from 2003-09-06, including the rarely-played final parts At A Siding > Terrapin Flyer as an encore.:
http://www.archive.org/details/ratdog2003-09-06.sbd.shnf

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Sep 28, 2011 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

LLR - I genuinely love that song.

The Newcastle version on the Euro '72 box set (i.e. a very early version) is GR888888888T.

I even like the '77 versions - they take you away from the duplicated, plodding ('77 trademark) drumming for at least a while and, get this, in her duetting with Bob, Donna even gets quite musical.

If anyone doesn't like LLR, they can send them to me - the more the better - you can keep your dull, plodding, boringly repetitive 'FotM's tho.

I guess it takes all sorts .........

(Early 70's fan)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 28, 2011 5:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Right with you on FOTD and TLEO, can't stand the slow versions at all - totally boring.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: fireeagle Date: Sep 28, 2011 4:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

both songs are in my gd top 10

ts:
*Terrapin, though … for me, it can be transcendent and chill-inducing*
couldnt agree more. even the studio version reaches the highest levels of transcendence, despite the orchestral crap

my fav version, which i believe is the strongest ever played http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-01-22.sbd.miller.110632.flac16

fotm:
hard to say which 1 is my fav, coz there are 2 many great renditions, but i really like this 1
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1978-04-08.sbd.miller.83716.sbeok.flac16


both songs can lead you to a cozmic climax :) and eventual, milarepa style, state of levitation

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 4:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I don't dislike either of them (Fire or Terrapin). But neither is something I'm normally very excited about, either. Terrapin can get stuck in my head - but then, so can a lot of pop crap.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

So Many Roads.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Always loved to hear Fire. Terrapin is a tune I loved when I first got into the band but grew to view as a placeholder because of the fact that it was so lyric-heavy; there was really no room for jamming until the end.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 28, 2011 5:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Agree with your assessment of Terrapin... and I like it most of the time, but i often find the ending is too repetitious, they could have shortened it. A wonderful story from Hunter...

Another piece for this category might be Weather Report - Prelude and Suite. I get the impression that some love it, others hate it. Even though some of it is sentimental (borderline cheesy), I think it's a fine piece of music from Weir.

Circle songs and sands of time
And seasons will end in tumbled rhyme
And little change, the wind and rain

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

no doubt

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: reviewr Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I think Terrapin may be the best thing Hunter ever wrote, but (sorry to say this) I don't think Jerry's music meets the challenge. I often find Terrapin tiring live. Especially when they repeat the ending over and over and over with no variation.

I also often hear Hunter's words in my head when I step outside at night ("Counting stars by candle light...").

I can't imagine someone not liking Fire. I never met a Fire I didn't like.

There is a song I like a lot that I'm guessing most don't: My Brother Esau - a little off topic.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I generally never listen to terrapin, maybe once a year. though I've always felt it was a song that I should pay more attention to. I think it really is a nice piece of music.

Fire, I love this song but cant stand it at the same time. I usually enjoy the intro but it is relatively "plod plod...". When listening to the song Im usually in it for the arrow b/t scar and fire.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 28, 2011 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Actually I don't think there's that much general agreement (any more than on any Dead subject!), outside of a few classic "standards" like St Stephen. And you know, some people are picky about their Stephens too... ("'69 yes, '76 no!" & that type of thing.) Some folks don't even like Dark Star very much...and some (gasp) would rather avoid the whole Live/Dead & Anthem era!

Terrapin's all right. Nice song; like many of Jerry's ballads it does go on a little long and it doesn't have a real long solo as a tradeoff; the repeating riff at the end can hold me or lose me, depending on my mood, but at least they finally took it into a jam in the '90s sometimes.

Fire's better than all right. I don't like the repetitive chorus, but otherwise the solos are pretty cool, and they're balanced by the more open jamming out of Scarlet before the song starts.

But Sailor>Saint....now that completely sucks, with no redeeming value! I'll never voluntarily listen to that garbage again.

One of my favorites is Days Between, but I know that song leaves many folks cold. Maybe a little gloomy for your average happy deadhead?

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2011-09-28 18:04:04

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

"But Sailor>Saint....now that completely sucks, with no redeeming value! I'll never voluntarily listen to that garbage again.

One of my favorites is Days Between, but I know that song leaves many folks cold. Maybe a little gloomy for your average happy deadhead?"

I feel exactly the opposite - Days Between, what is that? But Sailor Saint is pretty groovy.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Ha--sometimes these discussions make me think I've got to at least open a show or two from post 82, as I literally do not have a clue about these particular songs (DaysBetw, Sail/cir, SotMoon, etc).

Someday. I know you're rooting for me to do it, right? Maybe I should join a "post early era" support group to get help?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

We would be there for you all the way :)

Don't feel bad, there are still some songs mentioned here that I don't think I've ever even heard. (Can't think of an example off hand, so I guess it isn't bothering me that much ..) Others, like Lazy River Road, I only discovered via this forum and am quite glad I did, even though I fully agree most - not all! - of the versions available are lousy.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jobygoob Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

My problem with Terrapin is that, IMHO, every one is pretty much interchangable. There's very little variation or experimentation until the transition into whatever they happen to be playing next. My first girlfriend in college though was from Carlisle, PA, so just for that reason, the song will always be one of the most important to me in the Dead's entire catalogue. Every time I hear that line I get a bit misty (don't tell my wife.)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: madmonkmcphee Date: Sep 28, 2011 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I like Getaway just as much as st. Stephen, if not more. Ode to Chuck Berry I guess. I also love slow and fast versions of TLEO and FOTD, not boring at all. To me, Franklin's gets a little monotonous....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Terrapin is a funny song for me. The pendulum swings through the whole arc, best thing since sliced bread to turn that crap off! Forget '70's Terrapins, just awful. The song became better as time went by. B+
Fire is another story. There are a whole bunch of plodding Fire's, Bucket>Fire's, and even one Picasso Moon>Fire. (I can feel the excited energy as y'all are furiously trying to find that nugget). But most of the time Fire is A list worthy, and right from the get go too.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

WhaaaAAAT? 70s Terrapins are wonderful. Those are my favorites. I know some otherwise sensible people think it improved with more synth or midi or whatever, but they're wrong. (How's that for a convincing argument?)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

The orchestral Terrapins from '89-'91 were the best. I had a wish that they would play that one w/ a symphony.
O.K. A.R., rec one or two Terrapins from the '70's for me. You know how much I love '77 if you want to twist the knife a bit. ;-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

funny you should mention the 89-91 orchestral ones because those were my primary years seeing the band. While I was lucky that those were very strong years for the band I hated them playing Terrapin that often. The chorus and buildup is just so predictible and goes on and on. But I don't like big orchestra productions. I'm really not a huge classical music fan but the stuff I do get into would be small ensemble stuff. Same with keyboards and synth, pretty much can't stand them, but I love the piano as a side instrument. The only way I care for piano as lead is in jazz trios, not bigger ensembles. So I guess everyone has their own listening preferences, what tones they like etc.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I wonder how many shows we both attended, as those years (add'88) were in my wheelhouse as well.
jots, what's the best GD show you saw?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Well I caught every Bay Area ( including Cal Expo )show from Shoreline 9/89 to Oak 2/91 minus two maybe three. So somewhere almost 30 just in that timeframe. After that I moved to CO where the picking became really slim. Only one in 91 and two in 92 that were really depressing.

Best show I saw or best time? There were some really good Shoreline shows but I always had some bad negative thing associated with Shoreline. Either a missed ride, or that blasted mountain of a lawn, or it taking the entire set break just to take a whiz. I really hated that venue. The 6/90 cal expo shows were great but again I missed a ride there so that was a bummer.

As crappy as the sound could be at the Coliseum I probably had some of my best times there. Always scored on GREAT Phil side seats, level or a little above the stage, perfect vantage point. Had friends of friends that always camped out and let me squeeze in with them. 12/6/89 Earthquake show was the first one that completely etched them into my DNA that forever changed me. 2/27/89 Mardi Gras with parade etc was definitely a high point. And New Years 89 while not the best show I saw or even of that run was a huge experieince.

ah how I miss those times

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Well, we were both at 2-27-89, the last Kaiser run. My only shows (3) in Cali. It was an enjoyable run, but no great shakes. It was cool to see BG in action , getting that volleyball game moving. Deb was at the '89 NYE show. You probably were at many of the same shows as Deb. She was a Santa Cruz freak for a while. This is a great opening trio from the ol' garbage dump.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1991-08-16.sbd.nickc.111330.flac16

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Deb was a Santa Cruz freak? Ask her if she ever visited Fort Bliss up in Lompico... (just outside Felton). My domicile for a time - when I was going back and forth to lots of Kaiser shows and Jerry at the Stone.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dancin'Deb Date: Sep 28, 2011 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

sorry...it's all a bit hazy...It sounds like somewhere I would go though...the bliss part would have gotten me there...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

whoops! no were werent. I meant 90, with Beauseleil. Sadly I missed ALL of the last small venues by a hair, the Greek, the Kaiser. at least for the Dead. Caught Jerry at Kaiser. Amazing that they pulled those off even after the whole 87 touch explosion

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Dunno if you intersected with Micah, but I saw those CO shows. Mile High in 91 was like being lost in a mega sardine can, and I actually forgot until seeing the info years later that Santana played too. (Yeah, I know, that's such a stereotype, but I think I was just waiting for the Dead and ignoring Santana.) I think there was a big video screen of the band so you could see them, and that was new for me. Definitely different. The 92s were my last shows. I enjoyed them, but probably in part cuz my expectations were kind of low ... so, glass half full, I guess.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Sep 28, 2011 11:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I had never seen a Dead show at a stadium before that and was kind of dreading it. I made a point of sitting in the back up high rather than packing down on the floor which i never like anyway. I dont like to be crammed in. Anyway I have to say the Druma/Space was just amazing. They REALLY pulled it off with a big sound and with thelights. I couldnt help but think that if any cars driving by on the freeway that came close to Mile High were driving with the window down they couldnt help but wonder if a UFO had just landed. It was really something imo. Other than that it wasnt a bad show I dont think. It followed on the heels of 6-25-91 which I think is an incredibly strong 90's show. The 92 shows were depressing for me because i was up high and the sound was just awful. Couldnt hear a lot and while these werent the worst, the band had definitely declined from the period I had caught all my shows

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Ha--right there with ya, my friend. I never liked the "crammed quarters" of even a smaller venue like Winterland (< 5k, with seats vs "the floor") if you tried to get right up front (ie, on the floor).

Then with outdoor stadiums, 50k and such, it was massive sardine fest on the "green" in front of the stage, which I never enjoyed (guys like BD walking by to puke on your sleeping bag/girlfriend-->smelly former girlfriend [since you dragged her to this event, and besides not liking the sound, she got wretched on]).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Let's see ... since I'm sure you love May '77 so much, I'll suggest 5/17/77 and the one from DP 29, which is two days later :-) Also, 11/24/79 is really beautiful, with a nice sense of dynamics (if I'm using that word right), Brent fitting in perfectly, and good strong Phil. I like the simplicity of the earlier ones, where you really hear each instrument; I also like Jerry's younger voice on it.

I expect what a lot of folks don't like is the lack of space for jamming, but (even though I know this is heresy) I don't think EVERYTHING has to be jammed out to the max. Sometimes the lyrics, or the tune, or the playing between the stanzas, or the combination of everything is just beautiful in itself.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: billydlions Date: Sep 28, 2011 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I've yet to hear a better Terrapin than 1-15-79. I can see both sides of the argument though as some of the late 80's versions were better than early 80's. That being said, I usually skip Terrapin.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Conversely, is there anyone at all who doesn't like Box of Rain? Has a negative word ever been posted here about Box of Rain?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I don't want to be the first, but I do not like BOR at all. It strikes me as all drippy, gooey, smarmy, marshmallows and kitties and bunnies. Britney Spears gets all bubble gummy with the Dead??

I really have tried to listen numerous times. I've tried focusing on the lyrics, I've tried focusing on the music - melody and harmony separately and together. I've tried focusing on nothing and just listening.

And unfortunately (or not) that's all I've ever come away with.........nothing.

What am I missing.

FWIW, Scarlet/Fire, Morning Dew, Eyes, Terrapin, Brokedown, Days Between, Dark Star, Mountains of the Moon have lifetime memberships in my super secret special vault. Others rotate in and out depending on where I am with life's situations.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I'm going out on the limb with Mando - the ONLY version of BoR that I like is the studio version. Phil's vocals on this song in concert are so choppy and distracting as to make it unlistenable. Skip button.

On the other hand, Ripple has such a poignant message I'll never pass it up. Never heard a bad version, except maybe by Furthur.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

hadnt noticed your post before i posted mine but its virtually the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: user unknown Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

"Ripple has such a poignant message I'll never pass it up."

agreed

"Never heard a bad version, except maybe by Furthur. "

then don't listen to the "Deadicated" album. Jane's Addiction purely slaughters my favorite GD song

As for the original question...
I like Terrapin and Fire...and Day Job
but then I even enjoy the occasional Samba In The Rain

This post was modified by user unknown on 2011-09-28 19:20:10

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

You are the FIRST. And, fittingly, in a thread with FUBAR.

Which is what I am tempted to say must be true, about anyone that doesn't like BoR, but as friends, we'll agree to disagree.

I will say, you got balls.

;)

[how's that little icon for mixing up marshmellow "e" communication with common military phrases, eh?]

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

We'll see if the others are as gentle?

Maybe it's an accumulated lifetime dose of 1385 millrem of ionizing radiation that makes me incapable of enjoying BOR?

I suppose I'll back off a skosh and say that it's less that I don't like the song at all and more that the song does nothing for me - there's no resonance at all and nothing to keep me listening.

But hey, at least it doesn't get the heave ho skip button treatment like others.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Ha--hey, we also have "snafu" appearing below, so all my Navy knowledge is being put to use (I learned all these terms when the friend I mentioned from HS came home for Christmas from USNA...they were new to me in 1975. Have to love them: the best was he brought be a pair of blue NAVY gym shorts--just that word in yellow--which I wore for a yr or two in league play [b-ball]. The best compliment I got was after an extremely rough game, involving stiches, and "us" winning, the losers walked off, one saying to another "well, THAT's Navy ball for ya"...I was quite proud to have been labeled the instrument of such).

So, to echo elb, give a listen to RHunter's version of BoR and though his voice is an acquired taste, it comes off as a much more poignant song, IMHO. Same for Franklin's Tower as elb notes.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 28, 2011 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Wow.....

That is not even the same song....

Simply stunning. I am really enjoying this - thanks to you and elb!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

when i listen to live performances of this song i can relate to what you're saying but the album version is a different story!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I think the song takes on a completely different meaning when sung by Robert Hunter than by Phil Lesh. I think the song was written for Phil's father who was dying of cancer and the GD version just doesn't have that vibe.

http://www.archive.org/details/rh1978-07-22.sbd.ververelli.miller.113045.flac16

I find the same to be true for Franklin's Tower. Seems to take on a completely different meaning.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Yup...quit stealing my lines...see date stamp below. Or not.

;)

Meant to add: agree completely on FTower; love Robert's but never listen to the DEAD, era differences or not. Can listen to his any time.

This post was modified by William Tell on 2011-09-28 19:36:48

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Wow! But tell us how you really feel :)

Well, there's a first for everything.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: reviewr Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I'll set myself up for ridicule here. Box Of Rain is almost always filler. People are just happy to see Phil sing. One exception that I can think of - the Houston '72 version.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 29, 2011 4:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

you got something against Phil singing???!!!!!

:)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Crazy Otto Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

My wife actually doesn't like Box Of Rain. She loves at least 90% of everything the GD has ever done, including the rest of the American Beauty album, but for whatever reason that song doesn't do it for her.

I still love it though but I do agree with other posts that there aren't too many good live versions of BoR to be heard.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: drspark61 Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

My wife doesn't like much Dead -- live or studio -- but she loves BoR (even the live versions from the later years), and she loves Unbroken Chain. Just one more reason why I love her...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Well, who knew. I didn't think it would be possible to elicit bad vibes on Box of Rain ...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 28, 2011 11:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

DON'T Let Phil sing...

That's why the studio version is the one. That said, I went bonkers when they broke it out in Hampton. It probably helped that no one could actually hear the tune at the time.

And count me in the camp that liked Esau. The tune always spoke to me in some weird way. zeitgeist?
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/but-my-brother-esau-is-an-hairy-man/

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2011-09-29 06:34:08

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 29, 2011 4:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

>DON'T Let Phil sing...

What??? See, I'm firmly in the "let Phil sing" crowd.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Looks like Mando started something, eh?

You should check out RHunter's version as elb notes; really gets to ya, I can attest. My sisters and I were deciding which to play at our brother's wake, and I played that one, and they were both in tears within seconds, whereas Phil's (studio only of course) is upbeat enough to allow you to avoid shedding tears, and focus on the "positive" (not putting this well, but you get the idea, I hope).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 12:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Sometimes this place bums me out - I think I should stay out of these "which songs do you hate" threads.

I'll take your recommendation though, I don't think I've ever heard Hunter's BoR.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

It's funny; I think that everything I said was contradicted by someone, and every song mentioned has someone who hates it ... except for Ripple. So far. Sorry Ringo, I probably just threw grease on the fire, but it's far down and late and maybe no one will notice it.

The forum often reminds me of this part of a classic song. It starts at 5:40. No image, cuz this is from the stage recording, which has the right words (changed for the film) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beT1XD0sHbs&;feature=related

Horse! Mule! Horse! Mule!


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 29, 2011 4:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?



preparing now for Ripple-bashing ..

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 29, 2011 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

They can't. But still, who'd think there'd be naysayers on Box of Rain? So be prepared ...

http://www.toonpool.com/user/1281/files/battle_1407305.jpg




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-09-29 13:01:45

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Or He's Gone.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Or have you ever even played Box of Rain for a non-Deadhead friend and had them not at least grudgingly admit it's a pretty song?

Or Ripple? Does anyone ever complain Ripple is cheesy, or sentimental, or goes on too long?

Other than complaints that particular versions are marred by FUBAR lyrics, etc., I don't think anyone says a word against these songs.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Unfortunately, I & D have completely burned out our friends and family who just don't get it or they simply can't abide another single note.
I was thinking here on the forum, nary a bad word about Box, He's Gone, Ripple, ect. I have tried every song for conversion purposes, as many/all of us have. Keep it short and to the point hasn't worked. My grandmother (RIP) did waltz w/ me to Mexicali Blues once b/c of it's polka nature, and that was her fav style of music. D's mom likes Mama Tried b/c of Merle and the not so hidden message to her daughter. But that is it.
Oh yeah, my brother told me once that Ripple and Attics sucked. He had just broken up w/ a girl he really liked and I thought there was an opening. Silly me.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I was thinking that too. Ripple is so special, and yet hardly ever played. I just checked Deadlists, and they were all in 70, 71 and 80, except for a few odball ones in 81 and 88.

And Box of Rain ... heck, I can't even recall anyone criticizing Phil's singing on that!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I love Box of Rain as a song, but there are very few great performances of that song. The studio version is pure bliss, but there are other songs better suited to Phil's live vocal stylings -- like Tom Thumb's, for example.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

"FUBAR"? Ye of military associations methinks--laughed out loud, almost, thinking of you saying this on a regular basis. At work? Just around the kids?

;)

I will say that having used BoR at wakes, the slower, very sentimental version by Robert his-self Hunter, solo, in which the lyrics are easily understood by "non heads", is better in such settings, as the DEAD version, great as it is, is a bit too upbeat (to be played toward the end, when everyone is well into the drinking/celebratory phase rather than the somber opening of said event).

That's as far as I go vis-a-vis a "complaint" about BoR.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

FUBAR is useful, as a way of cursing without offending the elders, or as a way of escalating from "SNAFU." Which I guess is also technically a curse.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wisconsindead Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

You're right about that. I'm probably the biggest complainer I know of Ripple (my dad loves the tune). I just get frustrated by DSO ending every concert I see with it. I mean give me johnny b goode any day to close it out.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadhead53 Date: Sep 28, 2011 6:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Never been a big fan of Terrapin, I just think it is too long and overdone. I love Fire though and maybe because it has been the second part to Scarlet (which is one of my favorite dead songs!) Terrapin though I can take or leave just loke LLR and the slower versions of TLEO and FOTD. I love the 73 versions of TLEO and the early versions of FOTD. Someone brought up Standing on the moon, that is a song I love for really no apparent reason though, it was going to be our wedding song but it was a little too long.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: Oct 2, 2011 6:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

There are actually lots of opportunities for changes in Terrapin since it is such a long piece...but the band fell into a pattern of similarity for a while playing it--especially the outro jam ,which didn't change much. What you have to do is listen to a lot and seek out the versions which "go" other places....IMO the best thing they did w/Terrapin was around 1990 when they started adding VERY interesting post-lyrics jams, none better exemplified than the "Mock Turtle Jam" on the official 3/15/90 release. There are also times when Jerry just shredded in a hard-rock way the outro jam, which also sets such versions apart, as in 12/31/87: (Official release: Ticket to New Years)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd87-12-31.schoeps.ewing.16436.sbeok.shnf

Fire is trickier. The song works because of its hypnotic, repetitive reggae-infused jam, so repetition is a necessary part of its success. Unfortunately where "Fire" suffers is in the jam sections away from the main theme--ironically, with Jerry driving the engine--as good as those 1977 versions are, there is a very similar feel to all the jams and very little variation....which is why I think they started adding the 3rd middle verse "almost aflame still you don't feel the heat"...in later versions...to add some different elements and make the song more interesting. '

My favorite "Fires" still come from '77....most notably 5/13/77 and 5/21/77 (DP Vol. 29) b/c they really thrum on the reggae theme and Jerry is very engaged in the jamming, but more interesting (if less precise) versions emerge in '78 and especially '79, when Brent starts joining the transition jam sections with spacier explorations (11/1/79 is an excellent example.)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-05-13.sbd.miller.9393.sbeok.shnf

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1979-11-01.sbd.miller.23445.shnf

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

while they are hunting for those they can look for the one time only, Eyes>Fire.

When you find it you'll soon realize it looks better on paper than execution.

A for effort though

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

My Deadbase is still packed. I feel naked.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: lobster12 Date: Sep 28, 2011 9:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

shoreline July 3 1994

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Sep 28, 2011 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

I am a little surprised at some of the strong dislike of Terrapin . Here I though it was one of their most majestic creations, both musically and lyrically ( I think a view shared by the authors ). Now the album version is flawed by in not really being finished . The live versions can be the emotional hi-light of a show, but a lackluster performance, and make is seen like a lot of time taken up with little improvisation, same way I feel about a much lesser song, Throwing Stones . And like the "Samson" like "jam" in the middle of T. Stones, the post "The whistle is screaming " riffing could have used some variety ( me, never a fan of too much repetition ).
But count me in as pro-Terrapin , and pro 77 , and , yes 72 is better, the band at their peak .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: turnphilup Date: Sep 28, 2011 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

On a side note about Terrapin. Further has nailed the whole suite perfectly the last two times I have seen them. Puts a smile on my face and that's all you can ask for sometimes. Live in the moment. Peace

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 28, 2011 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Terrapin and Fire and ... ?

Have to agree, though I'm not the biggest fan of this song they do a very nice version of it.

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)